Shop Mobile More Submit  Join Login
Yes. Another one of my rants that starts with a personal experience. 

It was a day like any other, and I was just surfing DeviantArt, browsing the many deviations in my inbox. While I did so, my eye wandered to something that was called an 'tutorial on manga anatomy'. As usual, I was curious about the content. And as the preview image was pretty small, I wanted to check this out. It seems like this girl, let's name her Abbey (it's not her real name, but I think calling her 'that girl' is so damn confusing) had made a tutorial on male manga anatomy. Nothing wrong with that, you'd say. But I've been following Abbey for a while already. I originally met her in the forums, asking for feedback on one of her fanart drawings. Mostly anatomy related stuff. I gave her some tips. We talked a bit. And I followed her soon after, as I thought her art looked pretty promising altogether.

Now, I didn't know Abbey in real life. But she was a beginning artist, nowhere towards a level that she could actually be explaining things the right way to other people. But not even that bothered me. The thing that did bother me, however, was that she asked money to download her entire tutorial. The deviation page offered only a preview -- from which I could already see some large anatomical mistakes. To download the entire thing (which said to include a video tutorial), you needed to donate some DA points (which are actually money) to her account. 

So... okay... people ask money to download an 'anatomy tutorial' which isn't right at all? At that point I began to wonder why. Why would you ask money to teach people stuff the wrong way? Are you so bent on earning money? Or haven't you got a clue on what your own skill level is?

Anyhow. I tried to be kind. I mean; I helped her before and she appreciated that. So why not help her again? 
So I put a comment underneath the deviation in which I pointed out some things that were absolutely wrong in the preview image. Not everything. It wasn't my intention to discourage her, as she was just a beginner. Just a few things that really bothered me and were really REALLY wrong. It wasn't meant to put her down. It was meant to help her out to make better tutorials. And I didn't even mention the whole money-thing. A few hours after I responded, one of Abbey's loyal 'fans' responded. How the hell a 'lowlife' like me could insult her. I tried to be reasonable. But the girl (no older than 15 -- according to her profile) wasn't up for a discussion. When she started insulting me on a personal level, I soon stopped replying. I thought that might be just one fan, but I couldn't be more wrong. There were more.

Sadly I never got a response from Abbey herself. She removed my reply and deleted the deviation soon after. The discussion was obviously done with. And as I was blocked and removed, I suppose she didn't like me anymore. Well... so much for being helpful on DeviantArt, I guess ~__~

Okay. I admit that I might've just let this go. That I maybe shouldn't have replied to her drawing. But it just bothered me.
Why would people charge money for tutorials that won't even teach you the right stuff? 

Bad habits are easy to learn, but hard to forget. So why make people learn bad habits? And even charge for it as well? I can't understand at all. The 2 most logical explanations that I could think about was that Abbey either greatly overestimated her skill own level, or that she was so bent on earning money that she didn't care about this as well. I see both of them happen a lot.

Back in the old days, before the internet was widely available, the only way in which you could teach art was either by joining an institution (like a school) or having an art gallery and holding workshops. Those were nearly the only ways to get attention, as print media was expensive, so only large institutions could afford to promote themselves that way. Either joining an institution or having a gallery meant that you needed to at least have teaching papers for art (and in order to get those, your skill level was tested) or that you have to be good enough to actually have your own art gallery. The same went for publishing. While in the old days, you could only publish your books when you could find at least a publisher, nowadays every person can put stuff out on the internet and ask money for it. In a way, this is more fair. But with the internet market expanding rapidly, the amount of crap published often makes it hard to find the real quality pieces. And often popularity isn't a good indicator of skill level, whereas there are highly popular artists that dedicate themselves to a fandom which is very widespread (and those people often aren't able to make another type of art), and artistic masters that don't get the attention they deserve because of poor marketing. 
The point is; there used to be a certain skill factor that kept the real crap out. Because publishers only published what they thought 'would sell', and educations just had certain quality standards in order to justify the amount of money students should pay. A standard that doesn't exist anymore.

I guess this rant kinda makes is sound as if I'm some sort of elitist against the open culture of the internet. 
But I am not. Not at all!

I honestly embrace the principle of online sharing, user generated content and open source. Hell, as a programmer I've even contributed to open source projects myself. I think the openness is one of the greatest things of the internet, which led to great websites such as wikipedia or systems like linux. The point is... once the internet became popular, a lot of dumb people went there. I mean; real dumb people. The kind of people that have hardly enough brain cells to breathe. And those people started making art tutorials. And once they found out that you could make money by making art tutorials, they started uploading minimal screenshots with 'anatomy tutorial here', in the hope that people would buy it from them. And people did, and ended up totally disappointed. 

Not that this goes for unpublished artists alone, though. The best example in this case is probably Christopher Hart. A self proclaimed artist, whose books almost entirely consist of drawings not made by himself (Seriously! Have you ever checked the lists of artists that worked --almost for free-- with him, just to get a glimpse of his fame?). 
I can still remember being a 12 year old kid, interested in drawing manga. As the internet wasn't yet available here at that time (I sure feel old now), some friends bought my one of his books for my birthday. In the hope that would help me get better at drawing. I read it throughout and followed the steps. But somehow my drawings never got out as good as his, and I was clueless of why this was. It wasn't until I was much older and getting the hang of learning real human anatomy, that I saw the many mistakes that were in those books. How Christopher pretended explaining how manga faces work with simple 'guidelines' (as he called them). But without taking into account the 3 dimensional shape of manga head.

In short; once you learned those tricks, you could indeed draw a manga face. But only with that specific eyes/nose/mouth, and only in that specific angle. You got the illusion that you were learning how to draw, but the only thing you learned was a simple trick. Unlike what you thought; you weren't much wiser. You still didn't have a clue as how anatomy worked. You just copied a drawing with a few 'guidelines', which you couldn't reproduce properly! And on top of that, you were highly frustrated that you couldn't make those awesome drawings other manga artist could make. What did you do wrong? You followed the tutorial, didn't you? And you started to blame yourself for 'not having real talent' while all you did was looking for knowledge at the wrong place!!!

As I told before; bad habits are hard to unlearn. I ended up pretty frustrated by those manga tutorials. I continued drawing in my own style, until I couldn't get any further by myself, and eventually stopped drawing and continued writing. It was only after years, that I got fed up with the typical manga style, that I came to enjoy a style that was closer to realism. Which led me to learning realistic anatomy from from books from guys like Loomis and Hampton. And I immediately realized how I could use that knowledge to make manga as well. But was already over 20 years old by then. And the only thing I was thinking was; WHY DID I NEVER KNEW THIS BEFORE???

Although Christopher Hart is probably one of the worst manga drawing 'instructors' out of there (and no, I am not ashamed to say this), he sure isn't alone. Unlike many people out here, I've never been a real fan of Marc Crilley for the same reason. It's true that he makes cute drawings. But the proportions are pretty much off. And the worst thing is that he's unable to explain why he does certain things. Take this, a tutorial on a 3/4 face. Although the end result looks pretty neat, he fails to explain about why he does certain things. Why are the proportions that way? What happens when I turn the face? Why does the side of the face have bumps? Now compare it to this video, based on the Loomis method (it's realism, but hey). Same face, but better explanation (in case you wonder, the guy has separate videos on eyes, lips, etc). Got it now? The only credit that I can give Marc Crilley is that at least he does't charge money for his video tutorials. They're all free.


So what does make a good art tutorial? 

Do we all need to go to an art institution to learn proper art? I don't think so. But I do think we should keep in mind to check a lot of tutorials before we accept things to 'be that way'. And look for explanations in why things are in a certain way, rather than just accepting stuff and try to remember every single detail. Things like anatomy are pretty logical, once you remember the basic shapes. And in the end remembering just a few basics will be a lot easier than remembering a bunch of 'guidelines' for every single position a manga face can be in. Same goes for stuff like light and colors. Try to look at the physics behind lighting and shading, instead of remembering a set of rules for every specific situation. It'll make it easier for you, even if you're in an unfamiliar situation. 

The price for an art book doesn't always tell how good its contents are. Although there are certain quality standards that must be met in order to get published, it doesn't always mean it's good quality material. So before you purchase an art book, make sure to check its ratings. Either on Amazon/eBay (or wherever you're buying them), or on specific art sites. This also goes for stuff here, on DeviantArt. Be a critical customer. Know what you're paying for. If there's no preview available, then check the replies underneath the deviation, or ask for a preview. If people expect you to pay for stuff, you should at least know what you pay for.

As for free tutorials (on DeviantArt); try not to take them too serious. Some of them are good, most of them are mediocre, and some are really bad. Often those tutorials are about people explaining their view on a certain subject, or their method of painting. It could be very interesting to take a look at, or become inspired by. But don't see it as an 'absolute truth', because it often isn't. It's nevertheless good to look at, to get inspired by. Because... it's free. Why not?

What I like most, myself, is people like Proko or FZD school that make tutorials for free. Of course they have their motives; to sell their products (or in the case of FZD -- their art education). But they give you the opportunity to enjoy free tutorials, and pay only if you're interested and want to see more. And to be honest, I think that's a great way of marketing in the modern internet age. Customers are nowadays very critical on what they purchase. The time that we just bought something and 'hoped it was good' is long gone. Review sites are everywhere. And it has become really important what customers think about your product. So giving customers an option to enjoy your product, and leave them willing for more, is an extremely good way to market your stuff. I mean; look at the sofware industry. They're using this principle (trail versions, or free versions of a program) already for a very long time. And although the payment model changes over time, I still think this is very good way. 

So what about you?

What do you think makes a good art tutorial? Do you think there should be quality guidelines for art tutorials, or does the usefulness depend on the target group (the reason why Christopher Hart is still popular by kids, maybe?). Do you think it's justified to pay for an art tutorial? And if you paid for one; what made you willing to pay for it? What made it so good? Or did you ever purchase anything that you had different expectations of?

I'm happy to hear about your experiences.
And, in the meanwhile; if you're still looking for a few decent free art tutorials, here on DeviantArt, take a look here.


Disclaimer;
Everything written in this journal is entirely based on my own opinion and experiences. Yours might be different. The name of the girl in the example was entirely fictional, though the event itself really happened. 
Oh... and I'm not a native English speaker, so there could be mistakes in this text. Please forgive me for that. 
Edit: Since this has seemed to hit the frontpage again, and there are people that simply don't know how to behave: Every deliberately hateful or hurtful comment will be immediately reported to staff and the user will be blocked without any further notice. I'm up for a reasonable discussion, but I've totally had it with all of the senseless hate just because something hit the frontpage. 






Add a Comment:
 
:iconpetraraain:
PetraRaain Featured By Owner Oct 24, 2013  Professional General Artist
Well, she's young, she is still learning to take criticism. I welcome criticism because I find that it helps me to grow. Do I ENJOY it? I might get miffed a tiny bit at first but knowing in my heart they have a point. Later as I sit on the criticism, I see it. Every scenario is different though and I feel like I've accepted criticism better as I continue to grow in my art. But, some people never get past that. A good artist is one who never stops learning or inspiring or teaching. I personally learn by doing. And observing, movements, the way things are shaped, I like to analyze things in a visual context. Stuff like that amazes me :} I do agree that for a beginning artist to charge is a bit silly. You should never hold yourself to that high a standard unless you truly are experienced. I myself have a bunch of art how to books and I find them useful for if I need reference or inspiration. Even just admiring the artworks in books (or online) sparks a sense of aw and determination to *get as good as this awesome artist!*. Depending on the subject I am working on, I'll hunt down exactly the perspective I'm looking for, or what makes an ocean wave, an ocean wave, ect. You can learn a lot by researching the whys, rather than just the hows. And by doing. How do you expect to get very far if you don't even experiment, or try new things, or subjects, in your artwork? I maybe not follow art books or net instructions entirely after  trying them out. Like others say, you gotta find what works for you and your style. I think that's the best way to go about it. As long as you are progressing in your techniques and skill levels.
Reply
:iconxxice-maidenxx:
xxice-maidenxx Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'll be honest here: MOST of the art books in America are almost no help at all, unless you want to get a sheet of tracing paper, and trace the picture that you like or whatever. And I've been trying to find good tutorials online, but I haven't found much yet. -_-
However, I HAVE discovered that the Chinese art books are better that the English ones. They actually go into more detail about why the guidelines look like this, and what they should not look like, and how to avoid these kinds of stuff, etc. And the best thing was, my uncle gave them to me, so I "technically" got it for free!

But I believe that art books are actually just telling you the fundamentals. You can't develop your own style just by copying a book from cover to cover. Maybe they're only good for beginners, when they're still in the "copy until I find my own style" stage. ^^
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
But I can't read Chinese T__T
Reply
:iconxxice-maidenxx:
xxice-maidenxx Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Well, I guess thats where the illustrations come in. I rarely ever read the description, but I can figure out a lot just by looking at the pics.
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I have seen some of those chinese books... but it's hard for me to do it by illustration alone :(
Reply
:iconyinyaya:
Yinyaya Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2013  Student General Artist
I never really liked the art book tutorials besides having fun pictures in them. When i was growing up i only used them as something to look at ,i never used their step by step process. My tool to drawing was my observation and practicing. It took many years to get to where i am now, but observation from real life, i think, is the best thing to have. I do agree that doing a tutorial is a good bumper on your way, but most of it comes from seeing things. Plus i always saw the art books as if they were telling you that this was the only way to draw this, no creativity. As you grow, your art will improve and change in your vary own style. If everyone's art looked just like "Abbey", drawing would be very boring. This was how i learned, but everyone learns differently, some people need tutorials to draw, i just needed to observe.   
Reply
:iconartfulhattress:
ArtfulHattress Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Okay, so I'm an AP European History student and my teacher once gave us a primary source that was written by Leonardo da Vinci. In his primary source, it contained some details about anatomy but it's incomplete. I'm not sure whether it would be a reliable source  (relating to human/ animal's anatomy) to practice drawing human/ animal forms. And as we know that da Vinci is an expert not only at art but also at anatomy, does it mean that his documents is an 'absolute truth' or not? 
(If you want to see what's inside the document, I can copy it/ take a picture of it. It's not that much).

Thank you very much :) (Smile)
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's probably made obsolete by time.
Reply
:iconartfulhattress:
ArtfulHattress Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
So it would be useless?
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Not useless, since made things nowadays are based on it. But obsolete. 
Reply
:iconartfulhattress:
ArtfulHattress Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh ok. Thanks for the advice
Reply
:iconandresperezdelgado:
AndresPerezdelgado Featured By Owner Oct 19, 2013  Professional General Artist
all this is a real shit, You want a good tutorial , no exist, if you want learn to draw you need hard work, you can learn some tricks, and you get part of the way of other artist(you get 3/4 but you dont move this,you dont know the other tricks, when you hard work in your own style  you try simplificy your way for do it this one more quikly, and this  are your  tricks)you can draw mickey with tree circles and 33, tricks, you know...
It normal that the artist are searching the way for eat , bad tuturial ,good tutorial, it the same, there are a good music an bad music , and the two sides self .
I learn to draw trial and error ,erase that things that dont like , get the things that a like.Some people draw and dont use rubbler , he learn pattern and use lightable...i search pattern.
Reply
:iconflakface:
flakface Featured By Owner Oct 19, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Just letting you know I agree, and that I need some tutoring. I'm tired of not having any one-on-one help.

Learning from tutorials is great but if you don't have any one to one..I'll never know if I'm terrible or great. I think I'm terrible, but people tell me I'm great. Then some other people tell me I need to work on some stuff, which is good, I knew that, and provide the resources, and I love it!

Anyway, rant over. haha
Reply
:iconbadbrushart:
BadbrushArt Featured By Owner Oct 19, 2013
Never give your services away free, its as simple as that, unless you have an alterer motive. Whether its well done or not is the buyers decision, the persons time and effort is worth something.
Reply
:iconkrazykitty11:
KrazyKitty11 Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Student General Artist
I actually like Christopher Hart's books-- although, now that I've done a bit of research and seen that others often do the art, he's lost a bit of respect from me.

Anywho, I know I first got into art when I bought  Chris Hart Book (one of the Kids' Draw books) from a book fair in 4th grade. That's also when I found out about Mark Crilley. After drawing for several years, I'll look back at the now two books I bought and some of my old drawings from the Chris Hart Kids Draw, and I shake my head. I've kinda strewn away from that style. I'm still a minor, and I still like the design of his books. But the art style in the older books is rather chibi-ish and big headed to me. But back then, that's what I wanted to draw.

Now, Harts newer books, and more mature and in-depth books, like "Drawing Fantastic Furries" and "Anime Mania" are very well made. They show good realistic-ish proportions in an anime style. However, when I look in the first few pages, by the copyrights and whatnot, I see the contributing artists' column. In the Anime Mania one, it points out what pictures on what pages, which I really like. What most likely happened is that he asked some of his art buddies to send some drawings that fit a certain criteria, and then he drew the step-by-step parts.

As long as he credits the people, and payed them if that's what the contract said, then I really don't mind the fact that he didn't draw them.

Mark Crilleys art style is another one that I really like, and from both his and Chris Hart's, I felt I have improved my art. It's certainly not as good as many, but it's much better than what is used to be! When I first started drawing in a manga style, it looked terrible.

The guidelines that I learned to use are pretty much just the simple cross on the head, bending to the curvature of the face, and I've seen that a lot in his newer books.

I honestly think his older books are hardly as good as his new books, and Mark Crilley's book, although I've yet to buy it, it looks well done and pretty good to me.

(Gee, I just realized that I've blabbered on about a smaller part of your rant :XD:)


Now, tutorials, in my opinion, should give an idea and show a way of doing things, but online ones should be like how the companies do it- if it's good enough to merit a fee, then they should have previews. If it's not, then unless it shows a really good idea, then free on the internet is the way to go.
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
To each his own, I guess.
It's nevertheless interesting to hear other opinions about Christopher Hart and Marc Crilley
Reply
:iconkrazykitty11:
KrazyKitty11 Featured By Owner Oct 23, 2013  Student General Artist
Definitely. I didn't notice that Christopher Hart had multiple artists in his books, I keep and eye out for that now :)
Reply
:iconheavenly-graphite:
Heavenly-Graphite Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
i think even with simple 'guidelines' things, you can still learn a lot, but mostly from analyzing yourself more than for the "explanation". I started with those cheap "how to draw manga" books and even if they were really bad (i can only recall a few of them that actually gave me proper advices) i could kind of start out somewhere, so yeah, i think those are pretty much kid directed. Still they were expensive, so i can get your point here.
In school, if a teacher is bad, parents (and sometimes even students) would "report" them because "We are not paying for mediocre teaching", So, why should we pay for it now?.

btw, thanks for those tutorials, i needed some ;v;
Reply
:icondaibhiceallach:
DaibhiCeallach Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I have had similar experiences to this so understand what you're saying totally. The worst one was on another site where I was helping a novice with a few photoshop features and created a couple of video tutorials for her to learn from. The next I know she is offering the tutorials I created for sale as if she had made them. Some people are just so greedy they will do anything for money (except work that is).
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
wtf?
Reply
:iconsaaally:
Saaally Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013
PS: i'll never, ever understand how can people submit shit online and not be able to handle criticism. i mean, what's the point, then?
Reply
:iconconcept-cube:
Concept-Cube Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Student Digital Artist
^
Reply
:iconsaaally:
Saaally Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013
:la:
Reply
:iconsaaally:
Saaally Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013
I agree with everything you said, kindda-except one: the freedom in the internet didn't change much of how selective the real world is. Sure, anyone can submit their crap to dA, but not everyone can get a real job as an artist at a real company ;)

I think dA is great for great people but particularly perfect for beginners, and i say this by experience, because we can learn so much in here. there is so much awesome art to be inspired by, technique to observe, good tutorials [and bad ones but hey]. i never relied on tutorials, i always tried to observe the world around me, but regardless, dA helped me so much, my shit was so shitty when i came here [and i postponed creating an account for the longest time because i didn't wanna share shit, but my friend joined and i wanted to support her to so eventually i came] and nowadays i don't think my shit is so shitty (: i think what helped, and still helps me the most is the fact that i'm so much more self conscious about my drawings when they're in a public community, and the fact that we get feedback. I want people who support me to like them, they deserve to see good stuff, i'm not drawing just for myself, so i can't be sloppy. 

about art tutorials in dA: people will be people. people will overestimate themselves, and some, fewer, will underestimate themselves. 
There will always be people who shouldn't be doing tutorials doing tutorials but i dare to say that's a minority. i wish everybody was self-conscious about their own level but what can men do? like you said, sometimes people get popular for the wrong reasons and that leads them to believe they're better than they actually are.

That doesn't particularly bother me - it's something i know we can't fight and it's not harmful like other things people will submit so i don't care. As to paying for a tutorial, i never would. i'd rather buy an art book ;)

Very nice little rant, fun to read and oh so true o/
oh and about what happened, what a fucking bitch o.o'
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
And how about video tutorials? You can't buy them in a book. Would you pay for them?
Reply
:iconsaaally:
Saaally Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013
possibly, if i really admire the artist's work )o)
Reply
:iconjuachiobi:
juachiobi Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Totally agree.... My test is if I cannot reproduce the drawing over and again at different angles, even roughly, in a few minutes I don't bother.. A lot of the YouTube 'how to draw' videos I use for just learning other styles and ideas I can tweak for my use. Pity about the lady that couldn't take the critique. Thanks for this.
Reply
:iconmaramalsaied:
maramalsaied Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
flash :D
Reply
:icondarkneseofnightmares:
DarkneseOfNightmares Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
When I started to learn how to draw decently, I bought a few books on how to draw manga, and tried to emulate what was in there.  Then I also scoured deviantART for various tutorials, and I found that many of these tutorials were far superior to the 'how to' books, mainly because they explained basic anatomy, and taught you how to incorporate it into your own style.  That's not to say all of the books I bought were bad: one of the artists in my favourite set had a beautiful semi-realistic style, so that was the one I tried to emulate the most.  I also found a dusty old anatomy book in the loft, so I've been learning the skeletal structure of the body too, and I'm finally applying muscles to characters by emulating my favourite artists...

So that's basically my experience in learning how to draw decently, though I fully admit that I'm far from perfect.

As for the tutorial thing; I think it's okay if you would like to put a price on a tutorial, as long as it is a very detailed, large tutorial.  Helpful tidbits shouldn't be priced, in my personal opinion.
Reply
:iconkuri-osity:
kuri-osity Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
First, I am so sorry to hear about your poor experience with the other user.  When addressed politely and with constructive feedback, there is never a need to white knight or take offense.  At least, not on a site whose framework is art.  If people really and truly want to share their art without the chance of outspoken judgement, comments need to be turned off.  Or if they're sharing stuff that's doodles just for friends, something like a journal post, or tumblr or facebook, are the safer route to go.

In your situation, I think it's likely that Abbey overestimated what she was offering.  Maybe the visual execution wasn't great, but whatever text she added was had some technical value, so she thought that would be enough?  Maybe she saw other people of her skill level offering tutorials for a price, so she decided to try it herself. 

Personally, I think all of us, no matter the skill level, can learn from one another — but that doesn't mean we can necessarily teach one another, if that makes sense.  That is... someone who is an absolute beginner may be able to point out some spot on flaws in the work of a more experienced artist, but that doesn't mean they know how to correct the mistake. 

That said,I'm not sure when an artist should feel comfortable with making a profit from a tutorial.  There are so many methods out there, and each artist learns and adapts to a personal style, eventually. 

I suppose when an artist reaches the point that they stop second guessing themselves — when they can focus more on the creative aspects of their work because there is less of a struggle with the technical — I'd consider them more qualified to charge for a "how to" kind of lesson. 

And I think you nailed the most important point about teaching (and learning) how to draw:  It's not enough to simply supply a step-by-step procedure.  Whether learning or teaching, you have to explain the WHY behind a rule, otherwise it will be far more difficult and awkward to draw anything that's not following the same perspective/style that's used in the tutorial. 

And I LOVE receiving and trading feedback.  :D Critique me any time!
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I suppose when an artist reaches the point that they stop second guessing themselves
Are there artists who don't second guess?
Reply
:iconkuri-osity:
kuri-osity Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:) Bad choice of words on my part.

I mean the artist who has to really strain and labor to create the perspective/anatomy/etc that they envision, versus the artist who has their technical skills more down pat so that they can focus on the image/message as whole.

Like foreign language study.  As a beginner, it takes more thought and effort to form even simple sentences.  As you move on toward fluency, you can express yourself more easily and explore richer areas of conversation. 
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I don't know. I'm speaking English as a second language. And I've been writing it for years. Yet I don't feel that confident about the language, and I would certainly not teach it to others ^^
Reply
:iconkuri-osity:
kuri-osity Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
^^ That's what I mean.  You still don't feel confident, so you wouldn't charge for lessons.  If artists aren't confident that their work is up to par, they probably shouldn't try to charge money for art tutorials.  (and your English is beautiful!)
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
My point is; when will you ever feel confident enough?
I usually write in Dutch (my first language). I even won writing contests. But I wouldn't teach Dutch... as I don't feel I fully master it. 
Reply
:iconkuri-osity:
kuri-osity Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
When you feel you've mastered whatever aspect of art you're trying to charge money to teach, I suppose. 
Reply
:icondarkmasterblade:
darkmasterblade Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
you double posted dood:iconprinnyplz:
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I know. It seems like it submitted twice. I dunno why, though ^^
Reply
:icondarkmasterblade:
darkmasterblade Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
huh, weird
Reply
:iconrynn8825:
Rynn8825 Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013   Digital Artist
I completely agree with the fact that tutorials should not be how to draw in one style (No two styles are exactly alike, really!) and the whole thing with Christopher Hart, I admit I fell into the trap of his 'artwork'. Now, his is by no means awful, but you're right- he only shows ONE angle. It gets repetitive. I grew out of it and embraced western animation, albeit with some tweaks that I learned along the way. Tutorials should grasp a concept and that person best know damn well what they mean, or they risk alienating their target with useless, inaccurate information. Unfortunately, even on the professional level: quality is sometimes shirked just to pump out dross to appease an audience for $30 a pop. Or, at their very worst- patronizing and condescending.
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I admit I fell into the trap of his 'artwork'.
Heh... who didn't? XD
Reply
:iconrihab724:
rihab724 Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Student General Artist
I support your idea of what you did
Trying to help
They shouldn't really have reacted that way, but you did your part
Reply
:iconthedivinemissm-94:
TheDivineMissM-94 Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist

Personally I think you did the right thing. I agree beginners shouldn't be telling other people how to do something, because we're still learning ourselves, and they definitely shouldn't be charging money for it :roll: I don't mind if professional artists charge money for tutorials because it's their only income, they have to pay bills with it. If I can't afford it then I don't buy it simple as that, but I understand.

 

The tutorials that bother me are the ones with just pictures of each step and brush settings, an artist I follow does them a lot and calls them tutorials instead of step by steps. How is that helpful? They're showing us how to recreate one thing only in the way they did it, they're not explaining why they did it or how it translates into other ways, you know? I like video tutorials simply because you can hear the artist explaining what they've done and why they do it. But I like tutorials on DA because if you don't understand something you can ask the artist about it, which is far more helpful to me. Pretty much everything I've learnt art-wise has been through dA and practicing what I've seen and heard on here. So yeah, I love tutorials as long as they actually have explanations :XD:

Reply
:iconpetrotasia:
Petrotasia Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013

I totally agree on your rants on online tutorials that they should be free. Because they are made in the artist's own skills/ style and opinion, they only provide the basics and inspirations where you can take in and maybe try on your own, not something you should have to pay for. I found colouring tutorials the most useful.

As for my experiences, I self-taught my drawings, by looking at other people's cartoons I guess (digimon, pokemon, cartoon network etc). But I NEVER trace, and often I would try to draw in different angle and action. Because I wanted my drawings to be my own, (even if they are fanart, and I don't even know what fanart was then). My cartoon/manga drawings development have nothing to do with tutorials when I was small. But I enjoy manga, and Christopher Hart was one of the authors of the manga art books in my primary school and high school libraries. I didn't know he didn't draw any of his drawings and generally, I didn't care. At that age (10-12 yrs old), tutorial books only appeal to me in quality of drawing/colour and what something looks like. I always ignore the sketches and steps and the actual tutorial, because they seem pointless to me. (I don't sketch, I learn to draw by simply looking at something and draw it). That might make me sound so smart and pro but really, I'm no expert artist, I know next to nothing about techniques and strategies in drawing, I draw because it's what I enjoy and express myself. I will never be able to do any tutorial about drawing.

I did went to an art class (outside school) in yr 6 for a few weeks. I forgot why or how, I think I was interested in it and my mum enrolled me in it. I remember learning shadings (which was the only useful thing to me, caus I have no grip on shading), drawing objects and landscapes, basically what I would learn in high school a year later... my pride and joy from that class was my painting of a waterfall landscape from a calender, which was later put into a frame and put on show with the rest of other people's best arts. It was a kid stuff, actually, now I think of it. (btw, I am HORRIBLE at painting, it either comes out good or it comes out crap even now). Overall the class wasn't very useful since it didn't contribute to my drawing development progress

For me, tutorials are more to see for fun but not actually teach me to draw. But yknow that's how I learn, I know other people learn differently and that's ok

On  the subject of Abbey, I really think that you did nothing wrong and you should not receive the responses that you received. Some people are just ignorant and rude, and I hate those people. Those "fans" of hers -__- As for Abbey herself, I'm not sure what goes through her head. I haven't seen her drawing/tutorial or your comment so I can't judge her thinking, or your comment's offensiveness (not like you intended it). But some people do not take critiques seriously or think that "this critique is so wrong because I'm right" types. I just didn't like how she did not respond at all, since you said that you guys talked and helped each other before, I think it's just rude to not even take in that account, and she should know that you have good intentions. On addition to that, blocked and remove is just a low act considering she didn't even show/tell you why she would block you.

All in all though, you shouldn't keep being upset about this, and let it go :) It's a life experience

Reply
:iconakacaitlinne:
akaCaitlinne Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Your journals keep showing up in my inbox twice, did you submit it again?
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I made some minor changes. But it shouldn't show up again
Reply
:iconhakuthewolf:
Hakuthewolf Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Student Filmographer
^ Exactly that. Same thing I see in my inbox.
Reply
:iconjackheavenor:
JackHeavenor Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Anything that shows a process really, even if it might be ragged with tons of parts missing; if you get the gist of it, that should be all that matters. If you're able see a tutorial on how to draw an average body, then you should be able to take what you learnt -> exaggerate it -> learn how to make multiple body sizes. The more you understand about the subject you're learning about, the more you'll be able to experiment with it. Learn from a book, see it in real life and then expand it in your imagination~


Tutorials should only serve as guidelines of what an artist is able to produce, shedding light on maybe a stylised approach to the norm.
Reply
:iconhakuthewolf:
Hakuthewolf Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2013  Student Filmographer
Is it just me, or did you post this exact same journal again? Because I've already read it a few days ago. Or is this a deja-vu? ~_~ I dunno!!! (Help, I'm going crazy xD )

I think a tutorial could as well be how to draw something from only one side, because those tutorials can be the start of getting used to making certain lines. Then later you can look up tutorials that will help you draw the same thing from different angles and even tutorials that will help you draw something from any angle you wish. But they definitely should be >correct< and it would be handy, especially with anatomy, to have explanations WHY something is done. Now I'm not sure whether I'm in the place to say all of this, because a few weeks ago I made a tiny tutorial myself, which was just meant for some friends, but it's not the best tutorial in the world. (Then again, I'm DEFINITELY NOT the best artist in the world xD )
Reply
:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Is it just me, or did you post this exact same journal again? 
I've heard this from more people. DA is probably bugging again
Reply
Add a Comment:
 
×

:icondamaimikaz: More from DamaiMikaz


Featured in Collections

journals by ryuhia

News by oragamiknight

Journals by Shainbow


More from DeviantArt



Details

Submitted on
October 14, 2013
Submitted with
Sta.sh Writer
Link
Thumb

Stats

Views
18,882 (2 today)
Favourites
251 (who?)
Comments
465
×